shop/apartment plumbing question

[pi71]

i am having a 30'x30' cement slab poured soon and it will be for a shop/apartment. I will have a tub and toilet and was wondering if and how i should do the plumbing. Do i have to run the plumbing in the foundation/slab or is there a way to run it out the side of the shop and then to the septic.. Im new to this so be gentle.. thanks.

measure twice cut once

[Hube]

Are you in a climate that has below freezing temperatures.?? Your answer will make a very big difference in an installation procedure. Hube

[ApplianceTech2]

My advice and suggestion would be to install the lines in the slab. Also keep the lines seperated until they join into the main line outside the structure going to the septic tank. In that fashion, should the toilet backup, the water will not fill the tub.

And be sure there is a constant downwards angle to all pipes. Failure to maintain the correct angle will cause water to flow slower, or not at all. Water may pocket in the line(s) and freeze, etc. If you live in a cold climate, pipe depth in the ground is very important also.

Best bet is to install all lines per the codes appllicable in your area. Check with the city office in your area before pouring that slab. Much too later to discover there are problems and codes are not meet.

Helping You Too.
Good Luck.
ApplianceTech2
Natural & Propane Gas Appliance Service Rep.
Use Logic and Common Sense When All Else Fails

[pi71]

I am in Bandera,Tx(very warm climate),in the country,on 10.5 acres. Do i still have to follow code in the country? the reason for the thinking on the exernal plumb was easy access in the event of something breaking. thanks guys.

measure twice cut once

[LazyPup]

Pi71
The codes are very specfic on thins matter. The pipe must run under the slab and the depth of burial at the footer wall MUST BE frost depth +6in. Begin by establishing a line from the point were you intend to to install the toilet and running as straight as possible to the septic tank inlet line connection. Measure the distance from the footer wall penetration point to the septic tank connection point and compute a pitch drop of 1/8in /ft. Add the required pitch and the frost burial depth and that will indicate the required finish grade elevation minimum for the slab.
Example: using 50 ft for the footer wall penetration to septic tank inlet distance an a 12in frost line.
1/8in = .0125 inches
required pitch 50 x .0125 = 6.25in drop
frost + 6 inches = 18inches
minimum depth = frost depth + req. pitch= 18in + 6.25in = 24.25in.
MINIMUM SLAB FINISHED ELEVATION 24.25in above the septic tank inlet line.
From the point of wall penetration to the water closet (toilet) the line must be pitched at 1/8in/ft rise to water closet but must be a minimum of 12 inches below the water closet flange to permit a 90 sanitary quater bend (90 deg elbow up to closet flange)
The minimum diameter of line is 3inches for the line under the slab, to the location of the toilet and running undiminished in size up and out through the roof as a main vent.
Additional required fittings:
Line must be sleeved when it penetrates the footer wall. Sleeve is a length of pipe at least two trade sizes larger than the desired pipe and long enough to reach through the footer wall and extend 3 inches on either side. The space between the inside of the sleeve and outside of the desired pipe must be filled with expansion foam.
At a point 3 ft outside the footer wall a two way cleanout must be installed. (Additional cleanouts are required for each additional 80 ft of run. or at any point where the line makes a 90 deg change in direction)
Must be a cleanout at the base of the vent stack.
Vent must be connected to the building drain on the downstream side of the water closet(toilet) waste arm.

PROHIBITED FITTINGS:
A sanitary tee may not be installed on its back. To make the connection from the building drain to the vent stack you must use a Sanitary wye and 1/8 bend or a sanitary combo.
email me if you would like a drawing with these specs an specific code references.
LazyPup@yahoo.com

[pi71]

wow,kinda lost me there..i kinda follow but i could not go out and follow those directions ,,scary but im just learning.. How would one rough in before the cement? do you put in the actual piping or just oversized pipe to compensate for later? no more japanese..please..

measure twice cut once

[LazyPup]

You must put in the actual size of line, set in its final location because once the concrete is poured its too late to make changes. again, if you would like a drawing i would be glad to email you one. Perhaps its time i make a website..heheheheh

[pi71]

I would love a drawing pi71@satx.rr.com

Ive got another question. Can i just route the waste from my toilet to my septic and have all my other drains(washer,sinks,tub) just drained out to a hose above ground? to re use for watering or etc...?




measure twice cut once

[Troy]

LazyPup,

I'd love to see the drawing, and think it would help all the users of the forum. Will you email it to support@homerepairforum.com as well?

Thanks!!

[]

[LazyPup]

To answer the question about allowing the sink to just drain outside? No, definitely Not. Discharging any sewage (blackwater or graywater) is a major violation of the plumbing code, Federal EPA regulations and state and local health codes. In the case of EPA regulation, the fines can be as much as $10,000/day for every day of proven offence. State and local authorities would most likely issue a cease and desist order and require the entire structure be inspected and brougth up to code. They can also rescind your "certificate of occupancy" and order you to move out of the structure, (which is commonly done) Ask any General Contractor or Foundation contractor and they can tell you, before they even begin setting forms for the foundation, they consult the plumber to compute what the minimum floor elevation will have to be. In situations where you can not meet the required pitch to the septic tank or sewer, provisions have to be made to install a holding tank lift stations which is a very costly project an one which is done far too often because the builder set the foundation without computing the run to the sewer.

[LazyPup]

Troy, i sent you the drawing and text. When you get the email you will have to open the attachment and should enlarge it.

[Troy]

Sorry, back from vacation... [8D]



MINIMUM ELEVATION OF THE SLAB

1. Measure from the point where the drain passes
through the footer wall measure to the furthest drain
inside the structure.
2. Allow 1/8 inch per foot rise.
3. Allow 1 foot vertical for the sanitary quarter bend
under the flange.

Example:
If the furthest drainage fixture is to be located 20
feet inside the structure footer wall:
1. Pitch equals 20 x 1/8 inch or 20 x ,125 =………………..
2.5 inches
2. 12 inch allowance for elbow…………………………….12

14.25
inches

The minimum elevation for the floor level is 14.25
inches above the height of the footer wall
penetration.

Code specifications for the drain line.

1. Toilet requires a minimum of a three-inch diameter
line.
2. Minimum line size under slab 2-inch diameter.
3. Must install a cleanout fitting three feet outside
the footer wall.
4. Main vent must run undiminished in size through the
roof.
5. Main vent must connect downstream of the toilet.
6. Must be a cleanout in the main vent not less than 6
inches nor more than 12 inches above the floor.
7. Main vent cleanout must have 18 inches assured
clearance to allow for rodding (snaking) out the line.
8. A sanitary tee fitting is prohibited to lay on its
back (Side inlet pointing up). Where the main vent
meets the drain you MUST use a Sanitary Wye with a 1/8
bend (45 deg fitting) or a Sanitary Combo.
9. Must install a cleanout at any point where a drain
line makes a 90 degree change in direction on a
horizontal run.
10. ABS and PVC fittings may not be glued together.
11. No threaded fittings permitted below the slab
(threaded fittings must be accessible)
12. Must use primer and glue listed for the type of
material (PVC, ABS etc)
13. Pipe must be laid with the writing on the pipe
clearly visible for inspection (on top of the line)

Thanks, LazyPup!