Too much strain on copper pipe joints?

[austin]

I recently had the hot water tank replaced. The cold water pipe runs horizontally along the ceiling to the generally location of the hot water tank. The new tank was placed close to, but not exactly, where the old tank was. The drops are no longer truly vertical.

There is a 24" copper drop from the ceiling that, at the bottom end, has been pulled over 2.5" horizontally from where it would be if it were truly vertical. This is joined to a horizontal copper run (along which there is also a shutoff valve) over the top of the tank. The other end of the copper run joins to the copper pipe that comes up from the inlet at the bottom of the tank. The pipe that runs down the side of the tank is 64" long and the top end has also been pulled over 1" from where it would have been if it had been truly vertical (i.e. parallel to the side of the tank). In other words, the two vertical sections were forced closer together so that they could be joined to a horizontal section of pipe that was 3.5" too short. The result is that the vertical drops aren't vertical anymore. Is this acceptable practice? Should it be corrected? I suppose that this results in extra strain on the soldered joints. Does this place too much strain on the soldered joints? May this result in a leak sometime down the line (no pun intended).

[LazyPup]

You are absolutely correct in that this is a shoddy installation. The term "Plumber" itself is derived from the root word "Plumb" Thus a Plumber is one who installs things "Square & Plumb".

All the codes define that pipe, regardless of what material it is made of, must be run, fastened and secured in such a manner as to not cause any unneccessary stress to the pipe, joints or fitting.

I also have a couple other questions in regard to this installation.

Is this a side inlet tank? Normally side inlets are only found on smaller convenience or booster heater tanks in the 10 to 20 gal range. Judging by the dimensions you listed I would estimate this tank approximately 48" tall, which would then be typically a 30 or 40 gal tank.

Under rare circumstances, such as an older tank with a damaged cold water dip tube the bottom drain valve can be removed, a Tee installed, and the cold water line attached to the side opening of the TEE with the drain valve attached on the end of the TEE.

When installing a recirculating system with a dedicated return line, the return line is often attached to a TEE in the above manner, but when doing so, there must be check valve installed on the cold water inlet line between the shutoff valve and the tank. There is no mention of a check valve here so I ruled out a recirculation system.

My question now are:
1. Why is the cold water line attached to the bottom of the tank?
2.Is the copper line attached directly to the tank? The codes all prohibit directly coupling copper pipe to iron pipe or vessels. You are required to make the transition from copper to iron by means of dielectric unions, dielectric nipples or a 6" hardened bronze nipple.
3. Is there a union on the cold water supply line? The codes require a union within 12" of the top of the tank to permit changing the tank.
4. If this is a top inlet tank, and they opted to attach the cold water line to the bottom of the tank in the place of the drain valve, did they install a TEE to make provision for the required drain valve?

You did not mention if this is an Elecric or a Gas fired water heater. I am attaching a drawing with the typical layout of attachements for both a top inlet tank and a side inlet tank.

[austin]

It is a 60 gallon electric, Super Cascade, Giant Greenfoam, hot water tank. It looks one can connect the cold water either on the top or on the side at the bottom of the tank. I don't know why it was connected to the bottom of the tank. There is also what looks like a threaded drain valve at the bottom of the tank, but I don't see how one would open it. The copper is attached to the tank with a metal elbow. It might be hardened bronze (darker than copper, rough surface, not shiny), but I don't know enough to be able to tell. In any case, it is not anywhere near 6" long. I tried twice to upload a digital picture of the installed tank, but it timed out on the last 5 kb (I'm on dial-up).

[LazyPup]

Austin,,I appologize for my tardiness in responding but I am not real familiar with the Griant Greenform Super Cascade water heater. I have been doing some online research and I have submitted an email to the manufacturer to get some specific details. I must say that from what I have learned, that appears to be a top of the line unit.

It appears that your water heater has both top ports and an auxillary side input for cold water. When water enters a water heater vessel through a top port it then goes down through an internal dip tube to discharge the water near the bottom of the tank. Thst is to insure that the hottest available water is at the top of the tank near the hot water discharge port and also takes advantage of the physical law of nature that heat rises.

The addition of an auxillary side input is normally only done on water heaters that are designed for instant on recirculating systems, for auxillary heat sources such as solar panels or HVAC heat recovery, and for heaters which may also be used as a boiler for hydronic heating.

Technically speaking, there is no problem with inputting the cold water through that port as it does ultimately end up at basically the same place inside the heater vessel, however, my research did turn up an interesting feature of your heater. It has built in dielectric fittings, a feature which is normally only found on high end units. That means that the copper piping may be directly attached to the heater vessel without having to install additional dielectric couplings, although I am not sure that the side input port has a built in dielectric coupling. That is one of the questions I posed to the manufacturer in my email.

In the mean time, i would like to offer you some points of the code that apply to your unit and the manner inwhich you describe the installation.

Both the International Residential Plumbing Code (IRC) and the Uniform Plumbing Code expressly require "proper installation and support of all piping, valves and fittings (IRC 2605.1) & (UPC 314.0)..That means there should be no undue stresses on any pipe, valve or fitting.

In addition,,

Water heaters are required to have a union not more than 12" from the vessel to permit changing or servicing the unit. (IRC 2801.3)(UPC 609.5)

Water heaters MUST HAVE s full bore type shutoff valve (Gate valve or ball valve) (IRC 2903.9.2) (UPC 605.2)

T&p valve drain MUST be at least equal in diameter to the T&P discharge valve port( code requires increaing the diameter for long runs per a table of length) (IRC 2803,6,1) (UPC 608.5)

There are a number of regultions concerning the proper discharge of T&P drain lines, which i will be glad to offer if you require them.

Electric heaters require either a direct line of sight from the unit to the electrical circuit breaker or a lockable disconnect. (IRC 1307.5 & T4001.5) (UPC 309.0m)

Attic or underfloor mounted units require a light and electrical recepacle near the waer heater. (IRC 1305.1.4.3 & 1305.1.3.1 & 3803.4)
(UPC511.5)

Ligth switch required at the entrance to the attic or underfloor space..(IRC3803.4) (UPC 511.5)

[austin]

Photo of the new water tank:

[austin]

Photo of pipe installation:

[austin]

Photo of new hot water tank wiring (orange wire coming up from tank, through floor joist, across the ceiling of the family room, through the wall to the garage, across the top of the garage wall [clipped to telephone wire], to electrical panel):

[austin]

Questions:

Does the copper piping have to be taken apart and redone (if so, how exactly), or can it be left like that?

What about the electrical wire?

What is the minimum distance needed between the tank and the wall?

[LazyPup]

Austin...I still have not received a reply from the Manufacturer and while it is obvious that the installation is not up to code at this time, I don't see anything in the photo's that would render it unsafe or demand an immediate attention, There fore I am going to solicit a bit more information from you before I advise you how to correct the issues. This will permit you to do everything at one time rather than continually revisit this problem.

To answer your questions...

Water heaters are now required to be manufactured witha minimum of R-12 insulation, therefore the code does not recommend the addition of insulating blankets and no longer has a minimum wall clearance requirement. In fact, in some geologically active regions or in Hurricane regions you are required to strap the tank to the wall to prevent it falling over.

The electrical service is definitely not up to code, but I am going to ask Hayzee or Kactuskid to review that area and give us current National Electrical Code Specs. I can say that it is obvious that there is no "line of site" from this location to the service breaker, therefore you are required to have either a lockable electrical panel or a service disconnect near the water heater. The electrical service cable should be properly secured to the wall and fed to the disconnect box. (In my jurisdiction we are required to use either metal shielded cable or Seal tight flexible conduit from the disconnect to the water heater, and the flex may not exceed 6ft in lenght.)

In the photo there appears to be an angle valve on the cold water supply line after the shutoff at the 90 deg downturn. That does not appear to be a full bore valve although it is difficult to see in the photo.

Looking at the top of the tank, the T&P valve is installed into a TEE with the hot water line connected to the side port of the TEE. Whlie a T&P valve may be installed in that manner you may not use the conventional T&P valve, it requires the use of a special LONG PROBE T&P valve. (The code requires the sensing probe to be in the upper 6" of the pressure vessel.)

In the second photo there appears to be an unused inlet port to the right of the T&P valve. I am guessing there is another port on the left of the T&P at the same distance. Is that correct, and if so, how are those ports plugged at this time? (You may see the letters C & H stamped into the top housing near those ports)

I am attaching a diagram of the component layout for an electric water heater. Note the Dip tube on the top cold water supply port. You will see that it goes to the same general area as the side tap where your line is presently.

The T&P valve, Hot water outlet, and sacrificial anode ports are all the same and component placement is interchangable.

Once we have all the information I will prepare you a diagram and detailed instructions so you will be able to address everything at once.

[LazyPup]

Austin,,I just received a very informative email reply from the manufacturer.

They inform me that this particular water heater does not have the conventional top ports, thus it does not have a dip tube inlet for cold water, but instead requires the use of the bottom side port.

This configuration is common to commercial water heaters and does not in any manner imply the overall quality of the product is diminished. In fact, based upon all the information I have been able to gather I would personally rate this product very high.

Having now resolved all of that, we may then proceed to how to correct the stress on the supply lines.

The side inlet port does have the required dielectric coupling built in so there is no concern with directly coupling the copper lines to the tank.

The easiest solution would be to turn the cold water supply valve off, then open the water heater drain valve to drain the water down below the level of the horizontal cold water pipe to permit soldering.

Cut the horizontal line on the downstream side of the supply valve (tank side) and install a union, which is code required, and a short length of copper tubing to extend the offset enough to releive the stress on the pipes, and connect the short length of copper to the horizontal pipe with a coupling.

According to the manufacturer the T&P walve is a long probe type and meets code for this installation, but you should keep in mind that if it is necessary to replace the T&P in future you would have to use a long probe type valve. They are commonly available at most hardwares, home supplies and plumbing supply houses so that should not be a concern.

You may also want to consider installing insulation on the exposed portion of the hot water line.

I would definitely consider having the electrical cable properly supported and have the required service disconnect installed.

[John Sprung]

quote:Originally posted by LazyPup

In fact, in some geologically active regions or in Hurricane regions you are required to strap the tank to the wall to prevent it falling over.

Yes, you need two approved straps, one each in the upper and lower thirds of the unit. Also, the water and gas lines to the heater must be flexible. That removes all stress on the rigid plumbing. SOP used to be brass nipples in the heater, corrugated copper flex tubes with 3/4 females on both ends, and 3/4 female NPT adapters sweated to the copper pipe. Now we use galvanized in the heater and braided stainless flex lines. That corrodes less, and is easier to work with.

The strapping requirement is because in several cases, houses survived an earthquake with minor damage only to burn to the ground because the weight of the water in the heater caused it to move and rupture the gas line.




-- J.S.

[John Sprung]

Oops -- I meant male 3/4's on the rigid pipe.



-- J.S.

[LazyPup]

Both the International Residential Code and the Uniform Plumbing Code require SDC (Seismic Design Category) strapping and flex lines in specific regions that are subject to seismic activity (earthquakes) or hurricanes, but it is not required in all locations.

in fact, in my location all Gas connections MUST BE piped the full distance and flex lines are prohibited.

When in doubt, contact your local code enforcement authority to determine what the local code requires.

[Dean]

quote:Originally posted by LazyPup

Both the International Residential Code and the Uniform Plumbing Code require SDC (Seismic Design Category) strapping and flex lines in specific regions that are subject to seismic activity (earthquakes) or hurricanes, but it is not required in all locations.

in fact, in my location all Gas connections MUST BE piped the full distance and flex lines are prohibited.

When in doubt, contact your local code enforcement authority to determine what the local code requires.

Should I reply above or below the quote ?

Anyway, good point Richard !

It's interesting to me how different factors in different areas dictate the rules.
Sometimes when I read some things posted I think to my self "that doesn't apply in my area".
As an example, you probably wouldn't find a half dozen dielectric unions on water heaters around here and 80% of the ones you do find will be very corroded and needing to be replaced after a few years.
We connect 3/4 copper directly into the tanks with a 3/4 MIP X 3/4 sweat adapter.

Experience has taught us that as long as the copper fitting is NOT female, the corrosion is much less than that of a dielectric union.
Water heaters only last 10-12 years around here so the MALE connection to the steel tank will never corrode in it's lifetime.

[LazyPup]

The requirement to use dielectric couplings between copper and iron pipe or vessels has been a code standard in all codes for over 30 years.

In this region if copper is directly coupled to the iron it will begin to corrode within 6 months and normally will leak within the first year.

It is nearly impossible to remove a copper male adapter that has corroded in place by electrolisys and normally requires replacing the entire tank.

Due to the code requirement, many water heater manufacturers are now installing dielectric fittings during manufacturing or packing them in the box with a new water heater.

In this particular city, the water company is required to check the tanks when servicing the meters or installing new service and if the dielectric fittings are not present they will not turn the water on until it is corrected.