Can't shut off the main, making repair

[rogerst]

Hail, this is my first post.
I have a problem with a property I have been working at, I can't shut the water off. I can slow it down to a trickle. I broke the valve handle off trying to tighten it down so I would appreciate suggestions about that, but more importantly is how to repair the line for the new toilet.
I have taken off the old shut off, big mistake, I cannot get the pipe to heat up in order to solder a repair onto the copper fitting so I just tried epoxy-ing the copper together. This was a couple hours ago, Do you think this will work for a toilet? How can I get the water off......and back on with the broken handle.
Thanks so much
Roger

[596]

You have a couple of problems here, which is why I wouldn't have recommended tackling this project on Sunday afternoon.

1) I would not trust any kind of epoxy connection you may have made. You run a serious risk that it will blow out the minute your turn your back on it.
2) Your main shut off is quite likely a gate valve, so turning the handle tighter will not make the drip stop. It will possibly break the stem, either already, or when you try to turn it on. Then you will be stuck with the valve in the closed position.

Around here, the water company will respond to an emergency like this on 1 hour notice, 24/7 , to shut off their main valve at the meter so you can complete a repair. They will also come back to turn it back on when you are done.

If you have a copper pipe stubbed out from the wall for the toilet, then a valve which connects by a compression is the most common one used on my neck of the woods. It can be put on "wet". I don't know if the stores are still open where you are.

There is a tool called a "jet-swet" which inserts a temporaru expanding plug up the line, so you can solder to a dry pipe. Not likely anyplace open on Sunday where you can buy one. A plumber will of course cost you double time or more on Sunday evening.

I don't have any better answers for your predicament.

[LazyPup]

Every municipal water service has a "Curb Stop Valve" which is generally located within the first 6 to 8 feet of pipe from the municipal tap. Look for a round cast iron cover with the word "Water" in cast raised letters on the cap.

I must caution you, before you proceed you must contact your local municipal water supplier to find out if there are any local ordinances prohibitiing the homeowner from turning this valve on or off. In my area some municipalities have no restrictions while in others they have ordinances that could net fines up to $1,000 or 90 days in jail. Fortunately, in those communities that have restrictions they also have service people on call 24/7 that will come out and turn the service off for maintenance.

For informational purposes see the attached illustration.

As you can see, the curb stop valve is set below the frost line and there is a pipe access up to the surface with the service access cover on top. Once the cover is removed the curb stop wrench is dropped down the pipe until it contacts the valve and the valve can then be turned 90 degrees to turn the water off.

You main water shutoff valve is required to be a full bore type valve (gate valve or ball valve) and it is required to be in an accessible location generally within 10' of the point where the water line enters the structure.

Since this valve is immediately accessible the code will allow us to use a solder type valve or a compression type valve. Generally when reworking where there is water in the pipe it is much easier to use a compression mount valve.

You may also use a compression type angle stop valve on the stub out coming out of the wall beside your toilet so you will not need to be concerned with soldering the pipes.

If you are sure that it is legal in your community to turn off the curb stop, send me an email and i will send you instructions on how you can make a temporary curb stop valve wrench.

[leodlion]

Or you can just use an adjustable wrench to turn the valve 90 degree to shut the water off. Where I live, its legal (call the water people to make sure) and I have done it a couple of times when doing repair on the main shutoff valve by the house (freezing weater broke the main pipe). I have to be on my knees to reach the valve but its within reach. I have seen people use a long handled wrench like what Lazy Pup suggests but it may not be needed if the valve is not sticking.

Good luck.

[LazyPup]

If you live in a warmer climate where the curb stop is just below grade in a curb box an adjustable wrench will work fine, but in colder climates the water line and curb stops are a minimum of 6" below the avg. frost line.

By example, where I live the avg frost line is 3ft, therefore the water lines are a minimum of 43" below grade. When the curb stop is installed we then extend a section of 3" or 4" pipe to the surface thus we need a 48" long curb stop wrench to turn the valve.

[596]

If you live in a warmer climate where the curb stop is just below grade in a curb box an adjustable wrench will work fine .

Our curb stops are in a TOO SMALL concrete box at the sidewalk, and frequently are packed in pretty good inside with dirt! They are so tight that a 10" crescent or pipe wrench, which is usually the largest wrench which would fit in there, wont turn it. SO, a curb stop wrench is de-rigeur for all plumbing trucks!!

[ronfedele]

Temporary curb stop valve wrench

I sent a message to lazypup to try to get directions to make a temporary curb stop valve wrench. Don't know if he is on the boards anymore does anyone have a copy of these directions.

Greatly appreciated

Ron

[pushkins]

You can buy 2' long ones at Lowe's and Home Depot, if your located in a cold climate your local plumbing supply store will have the correct length valve wrenches in stock, should cost between $10 and $40.
If you have access to a welder then a Lowes/HD version would work for $10 plus some welding.

[HayZee518]

The "pup" isn't on home repair anymore - lots of people wished he come back! The street cock needs to be shut off so you can replace the main inside the house.