Monitor 441 Heater

[hawkins111]

2400 troubles

Rich,

You can have a partial igniter, but they are very rare. Check the igniter with your OHM meter (B connector wires). It should read 12.7 OHM’s at room temp. Much more than that will be a problem. The igniter should be bone dry, no fuel on it at all.

Remove the fuel line at the burner and run a wire down the nozzle into the pot. It should go 3 inches or so. If there is a blockage no fuel will get into the pot.

Are you sure the window is not sooted? You need to be able to see into the pot. This is important and should be the first thing you do.

Your 2400 can be made to show the level of the burn instead of the temps. It’s a matter of pushing the Hour and minute button at the same time for a short period.

n-- -- off or pre heat
n00 Ignition, pre combustion
n0000 High
n000 Med
n00 Med Low
n 0 Low
n-- -- Post Purge and Off

Keep us posted,

Tom

[wavit64]

remove the tube that goes into the combustion pot and put it into a small jar. let the unit cycle and see if you are getting fuel. no fuel, no flame. next check the air proving switch. with the blower winding out the switch should be closed allowing the pump to operate. also in series with the pump are the plenum over heat sensors. these should also be closed. the computer is reset when you unplug the unit. merely turning on-off won't do it.

1) Did test fuel flow, and verified flow, pulsing fuel coming out, consistant with what I would expect with a tube of that size. This was done with the proving switch connected.
2) Jumpered out the proving switch. Still no ignition
3) Unit was unplugged for 1/2 hour.

When I pulled the ignitor, it did get hot, started to glow in the center as a matter of fact. At that time it became uncomfortable for my SIL to hold so I disconnected it. Is it possable that the ignitor is bad to the point that it wont heat up enough to ignite the fuel but still get warm? When the unit was functioning I would feel heat at the bottom of the pot and on the exhaust extension tube (unit is in the basement). Not now.
If I check with an Ohm meter, and I assume all the switches should be closed during purge, that would mean I should get 0 resistance, correct?
I should remind the forum that this is a 2100, not a 441.

[HayZee518]

remove the tube that goes into the combustion pot and put it into a small jar. let the unit cycle and see if you are getting fuel. no fuel, no flame. next check the air proving switch. with the blower winding out the switch should be closed allowing the pump to operate. also in series with the pump are the plenum over heat sensors. these should also be closed. the computer is reset when you unplug the unit. merely turning on-off won't do it.

[wavit64]

Tom,
There is no flame at all, not for a second. Times past while watching the unit I would hear a soft "whosh" sound (much like when you light your propane grill) when the unit would light. Not now.
The heater is about 6' below grade in my basement and the supply tank outside on grade. Its a standard 250 gallon tank on 1' legs. Install instructions call for a pressure reducing valve so as not to overwhelm the sump level valve and that has been installed since day one.
As the unit attempts to go through fire cycle, one can smell unburnt kero coming out of the exhaust port outside, leading me to believe that it is indeed getting fuel. See my prior post regarding pump testing.
I removed the flame sensor rod, to my eye it looks good, very minor soot build up, and I did clean it off. When I re-installed the rod, I could wiggle it around and feel what I assume is the burner ring but when seating the probe I can not feel any contact at all.

Rich

[hawkins111]

M2400 troubles

Can you see the flame? If you can, watch it. When the status light come on there should be a flame in 30 seconds or so. Watch the flame and the lights at the same time. If the flame is strong (blue) when the lights start flashing, you have a flame sensor issue, i.e. carbon, blocked air holes, warped burner ring, loose mat. If the flame dies off and then the lights start flashing you have a fuel problem. Give us some more spec’s on the tank height.

Tom

[wavit64]

Ok, heres an issue that is totally driving me nuts!!!!
Vital Stats:
Monitor 2400 about 5 years old with no major repairs (except replacing a burned out ignitor about a year or so ago). External tank, fresh filter (less than one month old). Had some water in the fuel a long time ago, but unit has not been acting up since then. Because of the height of the external tank I placed a pressure reducer just before the heater. I have changed nothing in the set up since the day I installed it except what was mentioned.
Recently, the unit has been failing when left on automatic mode, and I noticed it was "short cycling" (firing up, bringing the room to set temp then shutting down very quickly - in the space of like 10 minutes), something it has never done before. I set it to "Economy Plus" mode weeks ago and it HAD been working fine.
Now, not so much!
Constant E-13 codes.
Heres what I did. Not in order:
1) Un plugged unit for 1/2 hour
2) Checked Fuel pump: it IS passing Kero through the small feed line to the combustion chamber.
3) Checked fuel sump. Looks good, even fuel level and no trace of water
4) Jumpered out the air pressure sensor
5) Checked voltage to the ignitor
6) Cleaned off the flame sensor rod
7) Pulled ignitor and watched it as the unit went through purge cycle. It started to glow red hot in the center and became uncomfortable to hold in bare hands (Thank you willing but gullable Son-In-Law). S.I.L states, "The *&$%# thing is HOT".

Placed the ignitor back in the combustion chamber, but the bottom of the chamber does NOT get warm to the touch as it has in the past. Very strange.

I still get the E-13 code! It almost acts as if it does not "want" to light if that makes sense.

Needing further suggestions, very VERY soon.

[Beth Blazer]

Monitor 441

Our monitor went out two weeks ago and we have been trying to fix it ourselves instead of having to pay someone else. If anyone could email me the service manual, I would greatly appreciate it. bpblazer@hotmail.com
Thanks!

[wkh]

HayZee518 could you please send me your pdf file for the 441
my e-mail is williamkhorton@yahoo.com

thanks

Bill

[hawkins111]

Monitor 41

Sir,

You need to do everything HayZee said to clean out your fuel system and then have the combustion chamber overhauled. Since your unit is a M41 I would do the blower motor bearings as well. While you are into the blower I would prove the solenoid damper and change the “O” ring. Your unit is an older Monitor and could have been in service for 20 years. Most Monitor 41’s and 441’s will only last about 5 to 7 years without doing some work on the burner. It’s just a fact of life; everything mechanical takes service sometime in its life. If it’s the one thing that keeps you warm in the winter I would do the maintenance in the summer, unless there is no other choice.

Good luck and stay warm,

Tom

[HayZee518]

what you'll need to do is completely clean out the fuel sump. shut off fuel at the tank. turn off and unplug the heater. disconnect the brass knurled gland fitting at the rear bottom of the sump bowl. pull off the quick disconnects off the pump. loosen and remove the cappillary from the pump top. take out the four screws that hold the sump to the heater. remove the pump and spray the filter with GUMOUT carb cleaner. Remove the top plate and spill out any kero in there. Take out the screw that holds the float in there and remove the float. Spray gumout inside and loosen any gunk with a Q tip. Spray some more gumout to flush it out. Remove the two side screws and remove the stainless filter. spray this with gumout and blow dry. replace the filter and plate. put everything back together, open the outside tank and watch if the fuel comes into the sump at a relatively constant rate. it should shut off approx at the line cast into the sump body. It sounds like the sump is starving for fuel when the pump kicks into the high rate. put everything back together and try it.

[fisenko]

not working

ok i have been reading alot on this forum, and i have a problem, i have a monitor mpi41 heater in my garage, and it worked excellent last year, but this year it has been acting up. what happens is the pumps work, i can hear it and feel it pulsating, the fan turns on, a blue flame goes on, than the burner goes to full flame, and shortly after that the flame shuts off. than shortly after that the heater starts blinking where the flame indicator is. i can turn it off and on right away and it will do the exact same process. flame looks good from what i can tell, i cleaned the filter on the side, and i opened up the burn chamber from the from and everything looks very clean, the flame rod looks fine and bowl isnt warped, but i can not figure out my problem, any help or advice is appreciated, it gets very cold here in Maine in the garage and not to much fun working in cold. thanks you.

[olga1913]

Thanks

Thanks to you for your ideas. PM sent.

[hawkins111]

M441

I'm sorry to say you need a complete overhaul. Since you live on the island and have water in your heat exchanger, you may need a new heat exchanger as well. If you are going to do this yourself, you are going to need every gasket you touch. It seems the igniter guard has come off the burner so you are going to need a new burner also. All these parts can be ordered from Woodway in Fairbanks, 907-452-4002. A new burner, all the gaskets a new igniter and possibly a new heat exchanger is going to cost a lot. By the time you get all this to Gamble it will cost $1000 or so. While you are at it you might as well get an exhaust extension to get the flue pipe out of the snow, $200.

It's not bad here in Bethel,

Tom

[olga1913]

thanks

there were no cracks or broken rivets in the pot. i was careful to clean the bottom of the pot as i knew the mat was there. did not work as a plate/guard had come loose and the mat was a mess. several of the holes on the lower end of the pot were sooted closed. my heat exchanger still had water and crap in it.

several of the gaskets fell apart even though i tried to keep them intact. now i have a workbench full of 441, cold kid and no dealer on the island.

Where can I get parts for this?

Any advise at this point will be considered and appreciated.

Thanks

[HayZee518]

ok, the water in the elbow tells me that roof water is somehow being collected via the inlet air line or snow is up to the level of the inlet/exhaust tube melting and is being sucked into the system. fuel puddling under the unit says the rivets in the bottom of the combustion pot have rusted off. each time the unit pumps fuel, kero leaks out of these holes into the catch pan. TIME FOR A THOROUGH OVERHAUL BEFORE YOU BLOW UP YOUR HOUSE!