Monitor 441 Heater

[adnadeau]

I would say that if there is no mat under the fuel nozzle that that could be the problem. The kerosene might not be spreading around the bottom of the pot correctly. The flame detector is located close to the nozzle area. I posted a section of the manual that shows how to repace the 441 mat and what things should look like: http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...heater-21.html

[ticki2]

How long is "after a few minutes?" The fuel pump will shut off after 2 minutes of operation if no flame is detected.
It could be the flame detector. You say the burner tub gets hot, which indicates some sort of flame.

The mat goes around the ignitor bracket and under the fuel delivery nozzle. There's a rectangular opening in the mat.

This seems to be what is happening . I am off to find the parts to make the test wire .
Back to the original question . Would a damaged or partial mat prevent the flame from being hot enough or high enough to trigger the flame detector ? The left side of the mat is intact , there is a piece missing right under the fuel nozzle . The flame detector is clean and not touching anything . The burner pot was pretty clean looking , not much soot at all , sort of terra cotta in color . This unit has never been serviced or apart before .

[adnadeau]

How long is "after a few minutes?" The fuel pump will shut off after 2 minutes of operation if no flame is detected.
It could be the flame detector. You say the burner tub gets hot, which indicates some sort of flame.

The mat goes around the ignitor bracket and under the fuel delivery nozzle. There's a rectangular opening in the mat.

[HayZee518]

burner & flame detector

they put a burner mat in there for a reason. it distributes the fuel so it burns evenly all around. there's little holes at the base of the pot where the kero fumes are sucked in, heated up, vaporizes and is then blown out into the pot at a higher lever, just below the burner ring. this is where you get that turquoise blue flame tips and subsequent heating of the burner ring.
Now for the flamerod. This is an ionization device. Normally there is an AC potential at 120 volts between the rod and chassis ground. When there is a flame in the chamber, the air around the flame rod ionizes, that is, made to conduct and produces a DC output to its electronics.
The flamerod test device uses a 1n4004 diode and a current dropping resistor in series with it. The diode changes the AC to DC to the control circuit.
The circuit closes a solid state relay on the motherboard to keep the heater operating. Loss of a flame drops out the relay and the unit goes into a lockout state. AdNadeau is the electronics guru of Monitor heaters. He's got all the answers to which and what ICs are effected.

[ticki2]

Thanks HayZee , I realize the mat needs replacing but trying to determine if that is the root problem . Will the broken mat causing hot spots not allow the flame detector to open ?

[HayZee518]

heater

the trough is riveted to the bottom of the pot. the burner mat goes around the trough and a cutout goes in the trough.
lack of a burner mat burns raw fuel and creates hot spots in the pot.

[ticki2]

Not sure if this is the right place for this but here goes .

M441 was running fine and then stopped ( lights flashing ) Tried to relight , goes through it's cycle , ignitor cover gets hot , burner tub gets hot , first heat exchanger gets hot . No flame showing in window , air fan is on , circulation fan is off . After a few minutes system shut down and lights flash . Checked and it is getting fuel , filter clean . Looks like the cloth where the fuel nozzle rests is missing .

Questions
Would a damaged cloth cause this problem
Would plugged air hole cause this problem
Does the burner pad go under the ignitor trough or around it
If under how does the trough attach to the bottom of the pot

Thanks for any help

[HayZee518]

lifter pump

use the lifter pump made by toyostove for the laser 73. its basically the same as the monitor lifter pump and a tad cheaper.

[Lefty]

Saved My Bacon

Thanks for posting this info.
It's supposed to go down to 28 tonight and my lifter pump crapped out.
I raised the fuel tank and took the lifter pump out, re-routed the fuel lines and then couldn't get the heater to stay lit.
This old thread helped me big time!
I couldn't find hardly any info on the Monitor 441 and even less on the lifter pump. There don't seem to be any available for sale either.
Can the lifter pump be rebuilt?
Thanks again for this old tread and all the info.

[FordMan59]

Thanks for all the the info...A question: I'm overhauling a 441, and found the burner mat pretty much toasted...crumbly and curled up ( what remained of it ) and lifted...(it had been installed glued down at the corners...I am ordering the material from McMaster-Carr to cut my own mat, but there's not enough left of the original for a pattern...I believe I saw one somewhere in this forum, (so many pages of information) but I didn't mark it at the time and now can't find it...any help would be appreciated!

The link to the burn mat pattern for the 441 is in the 3rd post of this thread. http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...cloth-mat.html I also just replaced the burn mat in my 422 last week using material from McMaster-Carr. The material I bought was 8799K3 (rated at 1800*F maximum), it cost $9.54 for a 1'X3' sheet. I had bought a new burn pot, but mine wasn't damaged and wasn't that dirty so it wasn't much trouble to clean it up, I used the McMaster-Carr material to see how well it holds up. I used Rutland 77 stove cement to glue it down. Everything seems to be working great!! Good luck with the rebuild!!

[shoreshot]

Thanks for all the the info...A question: I'm overhauling a 441, and found the burner mat pretty much toasted...crumbly and curled up ( what remained of it ) and lifted...(it had been installed glued down at the corners...I am ordering the material from McMaster-Carr to cut my own mat, but there's not enough left of the original for a pattern...I believe I saw one somewhere in this forum, (so many pages of information) but I didn't mark it at the time and now can't find it...any help would be appreciated!

[HayZee518]

look through the monitor section [threads] in hvac. there's three sources of manuals

[ken cox]

do you have manual for a 422 ( i'm new to this forum so i might be doing this all wrong but....- Thank you.

[hawkins111]

M441 parts

Yes, that is a smok'en deal. Most places you will pay that much for just the pot. It seems to hae just about everything you will need.

Tom

[floyd r]

Floyd,

HayZee is on the right track. You don’t have a circuit board problem. The circuit board is about the last thing that goes wrong on a Monitor. In addition to looking at the damper you need to overhaul the burner. The air holes are probably covered with soot and carbon. This, in addition to the damper being out of spec will cause a high flame. A new mat and burner ring as well as a good cleaning of the heat exchanger is what needs to happen. You will need to have gaskets for the igniter, igniter cover, top of the burner, flame sensor and window cover. The elbow on the back of the heat exchanger should be taken off so you can clean the exchanger completely. Since you are going to have to mess with the damper you might as well do the blower motor bearings at the same time. BTY, the chamber and blower on a M41 are the only two things that will work on your M441. If the chamber is no good I would pass it by.

Stay warm,
Tom

thank you tom..i tried to post a reply earlier and seems i messed up the board here..i found a monitor 441 delux tune up kit on ebay for 299.99. just wondering if this is a good price for this..has burn pot, burner ring, gaskets for alot of the burner and exchanger..o ring for damper and bearings for blower..item number is 300639891311..if possible take a look and see if this will cover what your explaining to me..thank you, floyd