The DEFINATIVE Monitor Thread

[sick2400]

Got a fuel pump from Mullarnies they had it in stock. Now my monitor is running like a champ. AT first when i hooked the new one up it didn't work either, but after some investigation i realized i had unplugged it from the board when i was playing with the old one. Now im wondering if the old one is actually bad. I will swap it back in withing the next few days to find out. The new fuel pump actually squirts like a squirt gun...its more than just a drip.

[HayZee518]

dyed or un-dyed kerosene works in the heater. what doesn't work is DIESEL, LOW SULPHUR STOVE OIL, BIO-DIESEL, VEGETABLE OIL.

[sick2400]

well after some reading i guess you can used the dyed stuff, so back to the drawing board...im still hunting down a fuel pump so i havent been able to try anthing different anyway.

[sick2400]

I think i figured this out. I got a delivery of fuel just before i tried firing this baby up this year. They screwed up and put DYED FUEL IN!!! what exactly happens to the unit when you don't use k1. Is this what is causing it not to run? Not only did they deliver 100gal of wrong kero they made the 40 or so that was in there unusable. Does anyone know what it does to the unit when you get the wrong fuel.

[HayZee518]

the flamerod circuitry has 120 volts AC on it when its not conducting. when it detects or is in a flame its characteristics change. it acts as a diode and its output changes to DC. that's why you use a diode and resistor to check out the circuit.

[sick2400]

any idea what voltage it is. Is it 110, 24, 12?? this sounds like a good idea.

[HayZee518]

you could test out your flamerod by doing what that other guy did. get a diode and a 100K ohm resistor. connect them in series and when your heater starts to fire up, connect the diode/resistor assembly between the flamerod connection on the motherboard and the heater case ground. if the heater goes into lockout, reverse the diode/resistor connection. then try it again. if the heater keeps on going, buy a new flamerod. you can get it at mulharney's in brushton, unless you got a supplier nearer to massena. I'm in st regis falls on route 458.

[sick2400]

Is it possible that the flame rod is bad. What happens if it is? could that be whats causing the heater to shut down before it really gets going? The only reason i bought the new burner guts was because the fitting for the kero tube broke off when i tried to remove it. When i got it apart it really wasn't all that sooty in there. It has all new guts in it now and still does the same thing.

[HayZee518]

you shouldn't have ought to taken apart the fuel pump. I tried that too and it wouldn't work after I put it back together. now, other than spraying clean the little filter screen I don't mess with it. because the pump pulses it just drips fuel. there is no real steady stream of fuel like you'd get from a regular oil burner and nozzle. my 2400 is two years old. first year after the install I had to clean out the sump tank. last week I had to clean it out again because the fuel & water formed a gelled gunk inside.

[sick2400]

I have also been getting the e-13 error on my 2400. I have tried almost all of the things suggested in this thread. The only thing i havent tried is checking the combution blower flapper because im not sure where it is on the unit. I can hear it open and close though. I also popped the hose off the fan just after it and it seems to be blowing strong. My question now is how much fuel should come out of the fuel line. when i check it with the line disconnected from the pot it just drips out slowly like a drip ever half second or so. The ignitor is glowing and i will get a really crappy yellow flame for a little while then the burn light shuts off. I did a burner rebuild so all the guts inside are new and still the same results. I'm gonna buy a new fuel pump because I think i killed the old one messing with it(i took it all apart). Before i tampered with it was when i was getting the slow drip...now it does nothing. Does this sound like it was the fuel pump from the start.

[Keith]

You absolutely have my permission; PLEASE DO! My intent was to share them. I added one more pic with labels showing what I did to keep my damper open slightly, and my makeshift shroud plug.

It's been running like a champ for the last 24 hours! I have a near perfect flame at LO, LO-MED, MED-HI, and HI! Purging and ignition are working perfectly too! And my little window is crystal clear so I can watch the results of my handy work (and good luck)! I can't believe it; I actually got a 441 to run perfectly! Who'd a' thunk?! Thank you and the others for all your help!

[HayZee518]

I saw the pix. Now i need your permission to post them into the forum, proper under a "sticky." This will help any others that may need to see what was done.

[Keith]

Yep, that's exactly the same cement I used. I gave the wrong stock number earlier, it's 7573A29. They call it Hi Temp Silicate Adhesive. Silicate is different than silicone. You mentioned much earlier in this post the name and number of the mat material you used. I thought it was the same stuff I used, but thinner... .040" instead of .090".

So I solved my air flow problem!!! I removed the rubber elbow from the bottom of the combustion blower shroud and stuck my fingers up there to see if I could feel the damper, which i did. It's a little butterfly gate/flap about 5/8" wide or so and about 2" long. It rotates on the long axis. I also found out that with no power going to it, it's open; so it takes power to close it on low-med heating. I thought, "If I can keep this damper open just a hair, I can increase the air flow through the burn chamber just enough to get a good, clean burn. If I can adjust how much it's kept open, even better." So with my fingers on the inside of the shroud and my thumb on the outside, I figured out where the little flange is that the damper closes against. Then I drilled a tiny hole through the shroud immediately next to the flange on the side that the damper hits and put a tiny screw in it. I screwed it in just far enough to keep the damper open about 1/8" max. This is all estimated based on feeling things with my fingers, mind you. So I fired up the heater and... PRESTO!!! Purge is fine; ignition produces a blue flame; low-med burn produces a blue flame with a few white tips (and it heats faster than the yellow-orange flame); hi burn produces a blue flame with white tips and a yellow-green flash every couple seconds (still gotta figure that one out); and shut down and final purge is fine. Problem solved! Yipee!

By the way, I finally uploaded a bunch of photos of my 441 fixin'. If you go to my profile you should see my photo album named Monitor 441 Repair. Let me know if you can get to them.

Thanks again for your help so far!

[HayZee518]

burner mat

I got some stuff that is flexible yet stiff. it is a coated acryllic sheet material that'll withstand temperatures in excess of 600 degrees. THIS is what I use for the burner mat. To fasten it I stay away from any silicone based adhesive because it self destructs and just doesn't exhibit standing up to the high heat the combustion pot gets to. I brought up what you had listed and it isn't even close to what I got. I'm still looking for the product. I did take a copy of the stove cement product. it's listed below.

[Keith]

So I removed the 2 air intake restrictors; I plugged up the hole at the bottom of the blower shroud where the damper wires go in; I think my combustion blower is working okay; I hear the damper opening and closing when it's supposed to; I think all my gaskets are in good shape (I don't smell any fuel or exhaust when it's running)... but I'm still not getting an ideal flame. Is there anything else I should check?

By the way, when I opened up the burn chamber last night I noticed that my new burn mat (McM-C Hi Temp Silica Fabric Sheeting .090" - #8851K33) was not glued down in a couple areas. As I lifted the edges to place some more glue (McM-C Hi Temp Silicate Adhesive - #8850K11), I noticed that the mat material was fairly brittle. It started out tan and soft and flexible, and was now kinda shiny gold colored and pretty brittle. Lots of little fibers came off as I messed with it. The glue probably doesn't have a great bond since the bottom of the pot has a little rust/crud on it, and now lots of little fibers, but it looked like the mat was staying put.

I'm still thinking that there's got to be something I can do to get this thing to burn better (and I don't think it's just because I'm a perfectionist). I want my little window to stay clean so I can watch my little BLUE flames, darn it! Any suggestions, or do I just need to get over it already?