Monitor 441 Heater

[Chas123]

still not sure where to attach spring

that spring is attached to the toggle over center lever that in turn touches the bottom side of the needle valve. the valve has two metal projections that catch on the toggle reset. when activated, the needle valve is closed.
newer units are just a button that moves the float away from a magnet that holds the needle valve shut.

Hay:

Is there anywhere to get a look at a picture of this? There are 2 springs, are you talking about the spring that is vertical on the left side of the fuel pump chamber? The one I am asking about is on the right. It spring loads a lever that can be pushed in from outside right hand side of stove.

Sorry I guess I am kind of stupid. Thanks for your patience.

Charley

[FordMan59]

Tom (Hay, and everybody):

I first need to get the stove running, then replace the blower motor, or at least replace the bearings. After that I would appreciate any advice on going through the entire stove and doing a rebuild. I have heard that parts may become very hard to find for monitor stoves soon.

I have looked at the rebuild kits available on ebay. I can either tackle it myself or have a repairman do the rebuild. I would like to tackle it myself and save some money. Honestly I am a bit overwhelmed right now. Maybe I will feel better if I can just get the stove running and repair the blower.

Thanks very much for any advice
Charley

Hickory Home and Garden in Hickory, NC sells parts on eBay under the user name hhgconline and is the cheapest place I've found to buy original Monitor parts. You can also buy silica cloth that you can cut to size and use for burn mats and high temperature gasket material to make your own gaskets from McMaster-Carr much cheaper than you can buy the original Monitor burn mats and gaskets. I use part number 8799K3 for burn mat material and 9323K21 for gaskets. You can also use Rutland 77 stove cement available at most hardware stores for about $6-7 for a 2.7 oz. tube for gluing the burn mat into the pot instead of paying $20 for a tube of Monitor glue. You can also look up Hickory Home and Garden on the internet, they don't have the Monitor parts listed on their web site but, they have a toll free number listed on their web site so if you don't want to buy the complete rebuild kit you can call and order only the parts you want. HHG shipped my parts by USPS priority mail and I had them in KY in about 3 days. McMaster-Carr shipped by UPS and I had my order in about a week. I used the McMaster-Carr materials when I rebuilt my 422 in Feb. 2012 and there's been no problem using the alternative materials. If you're mechanically inclined you should be able to do the rebuild yourself with no problems in a few hours. 2012 was the first time my 422 had ever been rebuilt so I had no prior experience just help from the knowledgeable people on this site. I started on it mid afternoon took it apart, cleaned everything, replaced the burn ring, burn mat and gaskets and was using it that night. Monitor is scheduled to stop production on service parts for the kerosene units at the end of 2014 so you may want to buy extra parts for future use. I bought 4 extra burn rings and an extra burn pot for mine and my sons 422's and 2 extra burn rings and an extra burn pot for my 2200. Parts prices have already increased about 10-15% since I bought mine and I expect them to continue to increase in price especially when production ceases in 2014.

[HayZee518]

reset spring

the spring is connected to the metal piece and connects to a little protrusion on the sump tank.

[Chas123]

Progress

the spring is connected to the metal piece and connects to a little protrusion on the sump tank.

Hay & Ford:

Thanks for the responses, they are very helpful & much appreciated.

I started taking out the combustion blower assembly (hope I have that right). I got everything disconnected then discovered as I tried to lift it up & out through the top that it is too wide by 1/2" - 3/4". The sheet metal that the circuit board is on is in the way. The only thing I could think of was to remove the 3 screws that hold that sheet metal in place on the left hand side (from the front) & see if I could sqeak the assembly out. Thought I would check before I go any further. Thanks for the help.

I am missing something here?

Thanks,
Charley

[adnadeau]

Yeah, you'll need to move the PCB mount out of the way. I pulled the 2 connectors from the interface panel and a bunch of others and swung the whole assembly to the left when I replaced the bearings in mine. I held it up with a twisty. If you have a stubby philips, you don't even need to pull the heater off the wall. After you get the blower out, you can run it with a suicide cord; just leave the capacitor connected.

[Chas123]

Yeah, you'll need to move the PCB mount out of the way. I pulled the 2 connectors from the interface panel and a bunch of others and swung the whole assembly to the left when I replaced the bearings in mine. I held it up with a twisty. If you have a stubby philips, you don't even need to pull the heater off the wall. After you get the blower out, you can run it with a suicide cord; just leave the capacitor connected.

Thanks for the help, the pictures are really good. I finished the job, which went pretty well. Here are some things I learned along the way. Left hand nut on the 1st fan as you start to disassemble blower assembly. You can heat the loctite holding the nut and bearings in place. To remove the entire blower assembly you can remove the front panel (don't forget the screw in the center) Then there is one screw on the right side midway down where the contol panel was. When you remove that screw the entire motheboard mounted on a sheet metal piece comes forward enough to remove the blower assembly.

Also be careful of the way the cover for the motor comes off there are 2 different sets of 3 screws each. It is just a little different the way this is assembled, make sure you understand it so you can put it back the same way. There are clips holding the bearings in place, and they are also loctited in place, which you can heat with a light, or I used a faucet puller to break them free.

One more caution after you take the motor out. You have to remove one more plate to get to the solenoid to replace the O-ring. Mine was broken, but still working, the O-ring is important and must be replaced. Be very careful of the screw and washer that hold in the solenoid, you must maintain that position because that contols airflow to the heater. My washers were loctited in place which made it very easy to maintain proper spacing.

Also don't forget the set screw on the 2nd fan blade. I bought my bearings from the folks at Hickory Home Ctr. there is a fellow there, Ron, who was really helpful, he also included a small tube of loctite 609.

Just make damn sure to make careful notes on wires and get everything back exactly the way it came apart. By the time you get everything apart you will have the right half of the heater completely apart. Oh yeah, the blower assembly comes out of the top, so the lid has to come off. Good luck, if I can do this I guess pretty much anybody can tackle it.

Best,
Charley

[niveknrebla1]

niveknrebla1

Just wondering where these "pins" are located? I'm assuming inside the combustion chamber? I took out the burn ring and see no pins for the spring clips on the burner ring to hook to. Do they screw in from the outside of the combustion chamber? Can I purchase new pins? I assume these pins hold the burn ring right where it needs to be in relation to the flame rod.

[FordMan59]

Just wondering where these "pins" are located? I'm assuming inside the combustion chamber? I took out the burn ring and see no pins for the spring clips on the burner ring to hook to. Do they screw in from the outside of the combustion chamber? Can I purchase new pins? I assume these pins hold the burn ring right where it needs to be in relation to the flame rod.

The pins that hold the burn ring are part of the burn pot. I don't remember for sure but they may be brazed into the pot like the fuel inlet. If the pins are there you should have had to turn the flame ring several degrees to get it to release off the pins. I don't know whether you can buy the pins separate or not, if not someone might have an old pot that's no good they could remove the pins from and send them to you. I don't have an old pot so I can't help you out with this. DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE THE FUEL LINE GOING TO THE POT WHILE THE POT IS HOT OR THE CONNECTION FOR THE LINE IS LIKELY TO BREAK. Edit: The 14th picture in the following thread will be a picture of a new burn pot for a 422 and shows the 3 pins protruding to the inside of the pot. http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...-pictures.html

[Chas123]

Info on bearings

Yeah, you'll need to move the PCB mount out of the way. I pulled the 2 connectors from the interface panel and a bunch of others and swung the whole assembly to the left when I replaced the bearings in mine. I held it up with a twisty. If you have a stubby philips, you don't even need to pull the heater off the wall. After you get the blower out, you can run it with a suicide cord; just leave the capacitor connected.

I am also going to redo my old Monitor 41 heater blower motor bearings.

Could anybody comment on the quality of bearings that were original in these Monitor heaters. I have a pack of ABEC 3 (Chinese made) bearings. I am suspicious of these and have heard that there is lots of real crap out there stamped 608Z, not to mention these are Chinese made. Don't really want to do another rebuild of the blower because of junk bearings I picked up.

Thanks,
Charley

[Bryand]

I am also going to redo my old Monitor 41 heater blower motor bearings.

Could anybody comment on the quality of bearings that were original in these Monitor heaters. I have a pack of ABEC 3 (Chinese made) bearings. I am suspicious of these and have heard that there is lots of real crap out there stamped 608Z, not to mention these are Chinese made. Don't really want to do another rebuild of the blower because of junk bearings I picked up.

Thanks,
Charley

I have been using the abec7 and had very good luck the 3's seem a little noisey. The pins are brased in and not to bad to come out. Might want to look a little closer to make sure they are there and you just don't see them. If they are gone they will be between the burner pot and the burner chamber which will require you to take out the whole burner assembly.

[Roninnh]

Thanks to HayZee518

You'll find a site on the web by Al Luce. Stay away from this guy - he's all hype and no action. He advertises parts for all monitors, but when you go looking for parts you're re-directed to another page on his site with no parts to be found.
A typical cycle for a monitor is an air purge, then fuel and ignition. with a flame detected the solenoid pump goes into high and so does the flame. After a delay a klixon detects the plenum heat and turns on the fan - lo or hi speed. The flame rod must sense ionized air in the burner pot and complete its circuit or the unit goes into lockout condition, then resets.

Note to HayZee518, What a great thing this forum is!!! Thank You very much! I have a 441 that would start up with the 4 lights then shut down with all lights blinking. The bottom of the burner would get slightly warm so I assumed the ignitor was ok. No blue flame seen in window. Cleared the filter and there appeared to be plenty of K-1 coming form tank. Blower sounded fine. Couldn't hear the pump so I disconnected outlet pipe from pump and ran a wire through it. That seemed to cure the problem! So air and good ignitor no fire must mean no K-1. I also appreciated the person who sent in the pictures of the overhaul of his burner. Cheers, Happy Heating, Roninnh

[noffskerome]

I have a old 441. I am having an issue with the solenoid pump. Pump quit thumping and the fire went out the other day, I metered out all the test points and everything seems fine until I got a new pump.

When I removed the old pump and metered between the contacts I got nothing (OL) so i grabbed another. Everything meters out fine until I plug in the far side of the pump. as soon as the circuit is complete I loose all voltage from the air pressure switch on down the line. If I unplug the pump the air pressure switch meters out at 115 on both sides and the first leg of the pump meters at 10dc with a pulsing ground, as soon as I plug in the far pin on the pump all voltage drops to 0 including the air pressure switch.

Have any of you experienced anything like this?

Thank you in advance for the reply

[hawkins111]

Make sure the flue pipe air side is clear on the outside of the house. If the flue is clear remove the wires from the air safety switch and jump them. Before starting the unit check the resistance of the pump coil, with the wires off the coil (565 Ohms). Put the wires back on the pump coil and try to start the heater. When the status lights come on you should be able to feel the pump thumping. A loud thumping means No Fuel. A faint thumping means the fuel is being pumped and you should have ignition. NO thumping means either the main circuit board is bad or the pump coil is bad. Tom

[adnadeau]

Sounds like something in the 120VAC side of the circuit developed a resistance. Try jumpering out the air pressure switch & the 2 overheat protectors. With the pump in the circuit & the 441 calling for heat, you should see 120VAC across the ~ pins of D2. You can't measure anything to chasis ground because the circuit isn't connected to it.441_SolenoidPump.pdf

[Rockn63]

Monitor 441- strange codes, can't even turn on or off

Hello-
I have a monitor 441 kerosene heater which worked fine until 2 days ago. A storm blew through the other day and after a close lightning strike the heater screen (time, temp, etc) displays random numbers. The first number was 22, now it's at 14… for a while it seemed as though it were cycling through (it's been up to 79) and then starts over. None of the buttons do anything at all, not even the on/off (power). I've unplugged it and plugged it back in, to the same thing. There was a surge protector on the outlet, and no other electronics in my home were affected. Please, could someone advise what could be wrong?