Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

[paul52446m]

Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

The "slab" stat near the water heater is just a sensor bulb taped to
the water heater heaters' inlet pipe and set at 70 degrees.
It is actually turning off the heater whenever inlet water comes back at that temperature.
As you can see from the panel box drawing - my pump will not turn off
no matter what temperature anything is!
Should I use this relay to turn it off?
That would mean I would need a 115VAC room thermostat right?
Or does the room thermostat have it's own relay built in?
I thought room thermostats use 24VAC with a transformer?
There's already one room thermostat upstairs going to the water heater room.
But it's not hooked up to this system at the moment.

If you have a stat up stairs you can use it, but you can only have one room stat tied to the system. If you have a 24 volt stat then you would need a 220volt to 24volt or 120 volt to 24 volt. what ever you have in your box.
you can change the relay with a relay with a 24volt coil to make a 120volt pump

[Stayouttadabunker]

I think there's about 5 thermostats upstairs! LMAO
Attached below is the Thermostat Panel box and other pictures of the stuff inside it.
Goodies such as a Universal Timer, 240VAC to 24VAC transformer, etc,etc....arghh!!!!
Gotta go try trace some of these wires and see where the heck they're coming from...
TOO MUCH JUNK! LOL
What's the adjustable Timers for?


Click on any photo to enlarge if needed...>>>

[paul52446m]

I think there's about 5 thermostats upstairs! LMAO
Attached below is the Thermostat Panel box and other pictures of the stuff inside it.
Goodies such as a Universal Timer, 240VAC to 24VAC transformer, etc,etc....arghh!!!!
Gotta go try trace some of these wires and see where the heck they're coming from...
TOO MUCH JUNK! LOL
What's the adjustable Timers for?


Click on any photo to enlarge if needed...>>>

The adjustable timer was probable for a time delay to start the compressor on your old system. You have a 240 to 24 volt tran. you also have some small relays in there. can't tell if they are 24 volt coil capable of switching 120 volt or not. it does't take a very large relay to start that pump. Paul

[HayZee518]

Mark! You throwing me out with the garbage? I can wire anything you need for your heating system. When I worked at a paper mill I did all the design and hard wiring on machines they purchased from Germany and out Europe. Heheheh I was the only one that could read german blue prints.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Mark! You throwing me out with the garbage? I can wire anything you need for your heating system. When I worked at a paper mill I did all the design and hard wiring on machines they purchased from Germany and out Europe. Heheheh I was the only one that could read german blue prints.

No! Absolutely not HayZee!
I was asking questions as to why the pump doesn't shut off.
The common trip white wire goes to the pump as well as the black from the new Master switch.
Of course the Master switch is wired to the 30A red wire from the panel so the pump doesn't ever turn off -
unless I go downstairs and manually hit the Master switch.
The pump is hot like heck and I'm worried about it is all.

...side story>>> My father was a ironworker and when they wanted to install the 1st ski lift gondolas in the U.S. at the Jay Peak ski resort, my father was only who could read the German blueprints! LOL

The adjustable timer was probable for a time delay to start the compressor on your old system. You have a 240 to 24 volt tran. you also have some small relays in there. can't tell if they are 24 volt coil capable of switching 120 volt or not. it does't take a very large relay to start that pump. Paul

I will try to determine what I can use in that box when I get home tonight if needed.



See attached drawing of hot water heater panel box wiring below...>>>

[HayZee518]

The pump is in the feed line for the slab. It will get hot. Now if it were in the return line it wouldn't get so hot because the return water temp is much lower but that would involve re-piping the system. It should be ok. It is meant to operate in adverse conditions. I can come over and help you track down where the "stats" feed to in that panel. If there is a thermostat in the room you are feeding water/glycol to, we can hitch up "that" relay to the circuit in the lowboy panel.

[paul52446m]

Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

The pump is in the feed line for the slab. It will get hot. Now if it were in the return line it wouldn't get so hot because the return water temp is much lower but that would involve re-piping the system. It should be ok. It is meant to operate in adverse conditions. I can come over and help you track down where the "stats" feed to in that panel. If there is a thermostat in the room you are feeding water/glycol to, we can hitch up "that" relay to the circuit in the lowboy panel.

He is just start to under stand that there is no way he can control the heat in the room from a floor stat.Read my message 59.
For cold weather he will need a stat in the room to control pump and the turn up water heater to heat better. Paul

[Stayouttadabunker]

The pump is in the feed line for the slab. It will get hot. Now if it were in the return line it wouldn't get so hot because the return water temp is much lower but that would involve re-piping the system. It should be ok. It is meant to operate in adverse conditions. I can come over and help you track down where the "stats" feed to in that panel. If there is a thermostat in the room you are feeding water/glycol to, we can hitch up "that" relay to the circuit in the lowboy panel.

Thanks HayZee!
I did locate the room stat wires from upstairs down to the furnace room.
They are going directly into the old systems' electric hot water valve.
From there, it the valve's power line and stat line goes to another zone box.
(I'll post pics of it when I get home later.)
Then from that zone box goes to the 2 red circulator pumps on the old system.
It's NOT going to the Thermostat panel box I pictured a couple of posts ago.
Apparently, that box is for the old,now defunct Cantherm 520 Ground Source system using the universal relay for the compressor pump.

So, what I think I need to do is remove the red pump wires over to the blue water heaters' circulator pump and the upstairs room stat will be in business.
I will have to remove the present blue pump (black and common trip) wires over to this old room stat zone wires.
This way the room stat will control the pump as the water heaters' temp is already controlled by the panel box's stat sensor bulb.

[HayZee518]

don't make this any more complicated then it already is. when you start to swap pump motors for what's on the lowboy, you are going run into more problems. you need to install an inter-posing relay for the room thermostat into the lowboy's panel so the room thermostat will control the pump and heater. that double pole relay that's in the lowboy's panel has a 240 volt coil. the two blue wires that are on the adjustable "stat" with the bulb will need to go across a normally open set of contacts on the low voltage relay coming off the room thermostat. it can get harry! let me do it!

[Stayouttadabunker]

[QUOTE=HayZee518;46023]don't make this any more complicated then it already is. when you start to swap pump motors for what's on the lowboy, you are going run into more problems. you need to install an inter-posing relay for the room thermostat into the lowboy's panel so the room thermostat will control the pump and heater. that double pole relay that's in the lowboy's panel has a 240 volt coil. the two blue wires that are on the adjustable "stat" with the bulb will need to go across a normally open set of contacts on the low voltage relay coming off the room thermostat. it can get harry! let me do it![/QUOTE]

I agree, I don't want to make it more complicated but I'm not swapping motors - I'm just using the wiring harness from the room stat.

I can leave work early if you want to come out and take a look at it?
Takes me about an hour to get home from work.

I'm thinking of plugging in the other Sun Room slab to this...run it as one loop.
Do you think it will handle 2 slabs on one room stat?
One thing for sure, at 1st, we heated up the dog kennel from over 150 ft away! haha!
You oughta SEE where those pipes went to get there! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Under the frost line at about 6'-8' under ground!
It handled 33 degrees last night w/one slab but I'm not sure about the minus XX degrees one 2 slabs -
when it really gets cold out soon.

[HayZee518]

all the water heater does is heat water. it doesn't care how much it's gonna heat - it just stays on and on to heat water. if you connect another loop to the existing loop it'll just take that much more time to heat whatever the slab's in. may not even work because there's so much volume of glycol/water to heat. parallel it might work but again you got so much to heat.
the room you want to control, does it go into the master thermostat panel? Is there a relay that pulls in when you vary the upstairs thermostat? Does this relay have an extra normally open set of contacts? The 75va transformer you have pictured is the source for all the thermostats in the house. the individual relays turn on or off elements of your heating system [motors, pumps, heaters etc] [controlling devices, not necessarily the devices themselves] a typical hydrionic heating system consists of a zone valve made by the TACO Co. It is installed in the line that feeds hot water to THAT zone. The valve has three terminals on it. When you turn up a room thermostat, there's a small heater inside the valve that gets warm and actuates a valve stem to open it. when the valve is open, it mechanically closes a set of contacts that turn on a burner and/or recirculating pump or burner relay on the system. You can have many zone valves off one system. Each zone valve will turn on or off the burner when its temperature requirement is met.

[Stayouttadabunker]

the room you want to control, does it go into the master thermostat panel? Is there a relay that pulls in when you vary the upstairs thermostat?

No, it goes into a different box called a Zone" panel box.
It has a 24VAC transformer and I think there's two relays.
It's nowhere as complicate as the one I showed everyone here.
That one was for the Cantherm 520.

Anyways, the "Zone" panel box used to run the other 2 red circulators for the 2 slabs.
The old system had the 2 slabs running "parallel" with their own room stats
running to electric hot water valves.
I believe that was the way they "Zoned" the 2 slabs...

I probably should pipe the HOT Lowboy's water into that system instead.
The room stats are already hooked up to those 2 circ. pumps.

[paul52446m]

all the water heater does is heat water. it doesn't care how much it's gonna heat - it just stays on and on to heat water. if you connect another loop to the existing loop it'll just take that much more time to heat whatever the slab's in. may not even work because there's so much volume of glycol/water to heat. parallel it might work but again you got so much to heat.
the room you want to control, does it go into the master thermostat panel? Is there a relay that pulls in when you vary the upstairs thermostat? Does this relay have an extra normally open set of contacts? The 75va transformer you have pictured is the source for all the thermostats in the house. the individual relays turn on or off elements of your heating system [motors, pumps, heaters etc] [controlling devices, not necessarily the devices themselves] a typical hydrionic heating system consists of a zone valve made by the TACO Co. It is installed in the line that feeds hot water to THAT zone. The valve has three terminals on it. When you turn up a room thermostat, there's a small heater inside the valve that gets warm and actuates a valve stem to open it. when the valve is open, it mechanically closes a set of contacts that turn on a burner and/or recirculating pump or burner relay on the system. You can have many zone valves off one system. Each zone valve will turn on or off the burner when its temperature requirement is met.

In the cold weather a electric water heater with one element heating would be too slow heating the water. You need to have the heater hot all the time and have the room stat turn the pump on and off when calling for heat. This way if it does't keep up he could run another 30 amp circuit to the heater so both elements can heat at the same time through there own stat in the heater. Paul

[Stayouttadabunker]

I found out something today.
They don't make the air vent I have (Amtrol Float Type Air Vent #732 Max. 45 psi ) on top of the air eliminator unit because it's been discontinued and they're now using a different one that looks like this one in the attachments below.
I couldn't even find a photo of one anywhere...all they had was of the old #700's -
which kind of look like mine.
I picked one up locally for about $6.
I want to make sure I get the air out!

I'm surprised they've changed the psi rating from 45 to 150?
Does that mean I have to have 150LBS of water pressure in order to get the air out?
Or would that be the max pressure before the valve blows up?
The body of it certainly looks beefier than the older ones.
My guess is that my pipes would come apart if I had THAT MUCH pressure in them...lol

Click on any picture to enlarge if needed...>>>

[paul52446m]

Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

I found out something today.
They don't make the air vent I have (Amtrol Float Type Air Vent #732 Max. 45 psi ) on top of the air eliminator unit because it's been discontinued and they're now using a different one that looks like this one in the attachments below.
I couldn't even find a photo of one anywhere...all they had was of the old #700's -
which kind of look like mine.
I picked one up locally for about $6.
I want to make sure I get the air out!

I'm surprised they've changed the psi rating from 45 to 150?
Does that mean I have to have 150LBS of water pressure in order to get the air out?
Or would that be the max pressure before the valve blows up?
The body of it certainly looks beefier than the older ones.
My guess is that my pipes would come apart if I had THAT MUCH pressure in them...lol

Click on any picture to enlarge if needed...>>>

All those auto bleeders do the same job. They will take the air out even if you only have 5 LBS of pressure. Paul