Monitor 441 Heater

[ticki2]

How long is "after a few minutes?" The fuel pump will shut off after 2 minutes of operation if no flame is detected.
It could be the flame detector. You say the burner tub gets hot, which indicates some sort of flame.

The mat goes around the ignitor bracket and under the fuel delivery nozzle. There's a rectangular opening in the mat.

This seems to be what is happening . I am off to find the parts to make the test wire .
Back to the original question . Would a damaged or partial mat prevent the flame from being hot enough or high enough to trigger the flame detector ? The left side of the mat is intact , there is a piece missing right under the fuel nozzle . The flame detector is clean and not touching anything . The burner pot was pretty clean looking , not much soot at all , sort of terra cotta in color . This unit has never been serviced or apart before .

[adnadeau]

I would say that if there is no mat under the fuel nozzle that that could be the problem. The kerosene might not be spreading around the bottom of the pot correctly. The flame detector is located close to the nozzle area. I posted a section of the manual that shows how to repace the 441 mat and what things should look like: http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...heater-21.html

[HayZee518]

flame detector

the flamerod is NOT near the fuel nozzle. it is located about a third of the way up from the bottom of the pot at about the four o'clock position if you look straight down at the pot. it is positioned half way between the side of the pot and the burner ring. its not supposed to touch anything just sit in the gap between the ring and chamber wall.

[ticki2]

Thanks for the help . Will order burner mat tomorrow so will not have anything to report for a few days . In the meantime I will make up the test wire for when it is back together.

Side note , I went right through Brighton last August on my way to the Maine North Woods to see the Trains on Eagle Lake .

[ticki2]

the flamerod is NOT near the fuel nozzle. it is located about a third of the way up from the bottom of the pot at about the four o'clock position if you look straight down at the pot. it is positioned half way between the side of the pot and the burner ring. its not supposed to touch anything just sit in the gap between the ring and chamber wall.

Thanks for the clarification . Since I have it apart I can see their relative locations so understood the "near" reference . Looking down one is a 4:00 up high and one is at 4:10 down low.

[HayZee518]

flamerod

there is only one flamerod. I don't know what the "other" is you refer to.

[ticki2]

The " other " is the fuel nozzle below

[vipmaint70]

gasket material

hazee518...i had asked you before about the gasket material from mcmaster-carr for the monitors, and i've had lots of luck using the 8799K3 silica fabric and the 9323k21 fiberglass insulation paper in my rebuilds. also i have tried the ceramic fiber high temp 93315k71 for the monitor. i was just wondering if you had ever tried to match the board like gaskets for the laser heaters. i know the kind i use for the monitors would probably work with no problems i'm still a stickler for using oem type materials, not necessarily from the manufacturer. i've been doing this for 13-14 years and i hate to use anything that would put someones heater in danger of failing...but if i could find something close to the org. material that would be awesome and if it tested out i could use it. also i've gotten two of the old lifter pumps that i bought when i bought out a dealer that was going out of buisness and neither works do you know of anywhere i can get some information on them and where to get parts.

[HayZee518]

parts

if you are repairing a unit for someone else, then I would go with OEM parts. It all boils down to liability, which is why, in this forum, I personally would NOT like to service anyone else's heater. If its your own heater then you can risk a problem.
OEM parts are designed by engineers. Materials are from Japan. Personally I don't trust japanese products but the toyostove laser has proven itself time after time.
Replacement materials from McMaster-Carr are equal to or surpass the japanese temperature ratings [gaskets, burner mat material]
Its your call, but don't blame anyone in here if you have a problem.

[dfitz3390]

i would have to agree with Hayzee in that working on a customer's unit use the OEM parts. i dont see what the big issue is with the OEM prices the only thig that you could possibly subsitute are gasketsand the like anyway. The more you support your local guy the more the they are able to give decent prices. Just remember your local retailer has to invest plenty to have parts available when we need them. just a thought.

[ticki2]

I always like to support local business but there comes a point . The local dealer quoted me today for a 441 , burner ring $180 , burner mat $50 . I thought that was a bit much .

[HayZee518]

monitor

unfortunately nobody re manufactures burner rings. you have to go to the OEM distributor. Gasket materials and the burner mat can be substituted. 50 bucks is a little steep. go to mcmaster-carr and buy a sheet of coated acryllic for your burn mat. you should get enough for 20 burn mats for about 15 bucks.

[ticki2]

Burner pot pins

Minor set back today . In process of cleaning and installing new burner mat i lost one of the pins that hold the burner ring . It appears that they are cemented in not brazed , is that correct ? Anyone know what metal they are made of , they are not magnetic ? Would anyone have an old pot for a 441 that they have replaced and can salvage a pin ? If not has anyone found a replacement ? Thanks all .

[Bryand]

Send me your address. I have one that I took one out of the other day due to me loosing one. I brazed the one back in that I replaced. Don't take a whole lot to hold it in. It will take a few days to get there from N.C.

[FordMan59]

I always like to support local business but there comes a point . The local dealer quoted me today for a 441 , burner ring $180 , burner mat $50 . I thought that was a bit much .

Sorry I missed this post earlier. Hope you haven't bought that flame ring yet. Here's a link to a 441 burn ring from Hickory Home and Garden in Hickory, NC listed on ebay for $62.95. Monitor Heater Combustion Ring Flame Spreader 441 41 40 2400 | eBay