The DEFINATIVE Monitor Thread

[HayZee518]

ok, you have an outside tank. the valves used there and maybe the heater are called fusible link valves. the knob screws onto a 1/4-20 thread on the valve stem. make sure they are wide open. when they are wide open the stem will come up through the valve knob. it is a gate type valve with a movable stem. take the filter element right out of the filter at the tank. get a new one later on. with fuel going into the fuel sump the round float should be about level, hence its name CONSTANT LEVEL CONTROL. when you cleaned out the fuel line did you get any fuel out of it when the pump was running? get back to me please.

[Jannie Patterson]

Hi...when I first got the error message I put a new filter in out there by the tank. To be truthful, we have had the stove about 4-5 years and it was the first time we had put a new filter out there. The valve stem is wide open and after the pump quit making any noises the other day now nothing comes out of the copper little pipe going to the combustion chamber. It was spurting out some fuel when the pump made the noises. The float looked level but when I opened it to clean the filters I had turned off the fuel inside so no fuel was in the fuel sump. I think that is the float you are talking about...right?? I could open the sump again tomorrow with out draining it and see if it is level if that is what I need to do...thanks for the help...I appreciate it

[HayZee518]

yes, carefully pull off the two electrical spade connections off the pump body, unscrew the brass ferrule on top of the pump and remove the tube, remove two screws that hold the top plate and remove straight up. look inside at the float level. if it is flat, level and you see fuel that eliminates the fuel level. the tank IS getting fuel. if it is up and being held there by the magnet. too much fuel too fast is getting into the sump. reset the float by pressing the red button. this will release the float. put everything back together and make sure the pump body isn't touching the float. start the unit, after purge the pump should come on. you already verified the combustion pot igniter is on by the warmth you felt. if nothing ignites then change out the pump. this is the ONLY thing left keeping you from getting fire. check out a couple of other things. the big round air pressure switch has a switch on it. temporarily jumper it out. On the sheet metal air plenum are two switches connected in series, jumper these out too. The other one is for your fan - don't jumper this one out. then, fire up the unit. if it fires up, remove the jumpers one by one until you find the device that's keeping your ignite circuit from activating. after that only thing left is the computer microprocessor failure.

[Jannie Patterson]

Thanks I'll check this stuff out and let you know what I discover...thanks again for all of the imput...the help is much needed and much appreciated!!! :-)

[HayZee518]

I don't like to give up until ALL AVENUES have been exhausted and then feel bad because I couldn't help you. I wish I knew more about the microprocessor board.

[Jannie Patterson]

Just an update...I went to town and ordered a new pump. I checked the Constant Level Float like you had suggested. It seemed right. It will be a couple of days now for the pump to get here. I will let you know how it works out. Thanks again for all of the imput :-)

[Jannie Patterson]

Hi...I wanted to let you know that today I picked up my solenoid pump in town and put it in the Monitor and it began working like a champ!!! Thank you again so much for all the ideas and input...really helped me out a lot. :-)

[HayZee518]

glad to hear that! now I got to find out information on TOYOSTOVE and RINNAI heaters and start a forum on those.

[trickshifter]

fyi when i took my monitor apart i recognized the gasket material it is a high temp 1800/2300 degree paper used in the hot glass industry. you can do a google search for kiln shelf paper or GO TO SUNDANCE GLASS ART then search for fiber paper you can get it from 1/8" to 1/4"

[HayZee518]

THANK YOU for the information. I'm sure we'll all benefit from this. Now let's just hope the cost is less than Monitor charges.

[HayZee518]

the gasket insulation I've used is a ceramic fiber sheet stock - McMaster-Carr stock number 93235K11 - 24 inches X 6ft piece is $40.81

[Keith]

I need advice. I have a Monitor 441 that came with the house in 2001. It's worked just fine (to the best of my knowledge) for 8 years. I refilled an empty tank in December then it did the typical burner fan > fuel pump > ignitor > flame failure > room fan > shut down > blinking display. Thanks to this website (in particular HayZee the Monitor Guru and McMaster-Carr), I now have a beautiful, custom burn mat, new gaskets, clean interior and so on. Now I have no more flame failure or blinking lights; but my flame is yellow-orange and soots up the window and burn chamber in less than a day. To be more specific, my half-power (4 light bars) and low-power (2 light bars) flame is yellow-orange and sooty and flares up inside the chamber. But my high-power (8 light bars) flame is blue with white tips around the perimeter of the burn pot with a slight yellow flame in the center over the glowing red burn ring. The burner fan sounds like it has one speed for low/med power, and speeds up quite a bit for high power. My intake/exhaust pipe is clear, as is the burner fan and the pipe into the bottom of the burn chamber and out through the radiator. I blew air from my shop vac into the burner fan inlet and it came out the radiator outlet in the same volume without any apparent hinderance. I suspect that there is some electronic part that controls the burner fan speed which is not working correctly. It could be that the burner fan just isn't running as fast as it should. The burner fan itself spins very quietly and easily, and takes several minutes to stop spinning after the heater has shut off. I think the bearing is fine. Here's my REAL problem. I do fine with mechanical things I can see like pots and mats and fuel and air flow, but I know nothing about electronics (since I can't see electrons). I need to know which meters I need to buy and how to use them and where to stick them and what they should read and how not to get electrocuted or short anything out or start a fire. Please enlighten me oh wise one(s)!

By the way, I've taken pictures of EVERYTHING I've done so far and will post them in the gallery as soon as I get my 441 dialed.

Thanks in advance!

[HayZee518]

for electronic circuits a digital multimeter is always a must. but you'll be measuring voltages most of the time. the air blower fan is a two speed fan. the combustion blower is a single speed fan. what sounds like the speed picks up when the unit goes into high is the pulsations from the solenoid pump. a flame with yellow tips and much sooting is the combustion blower. with the unit off and unplugged, take off the flexible hose that goes between the combustion blower and the exhaust pipe. look into the blower for a restriction ring and also the exhaust tube OR the flex end that goes onto the exhaust tube. take out any restriction ring. this will increase the airflow to the combustion pot -as- you say it's spinning fast enough. the air holes in the combustion pot just below the combustion ring need to be cleaned.

[Keith]

I've seen the restriction rings where the inlet/exhaust meets the flex pipe and where the flex pipe enters the back of the combustion blower. I'll take those out. When it "shifts" from low/med to high, I can 1) feel the pulsing/clicking in the tiny fuel line between the pump and the chamber speed up and 2) hear one of the 2 fans speed up considerably. That's when the flame changes from a tall yellow-orange sooty flame and a non-glowing burn ring to a low blue flame in the vent holes around the edge of the pot and a red glowing burn ring. The 2 types of flames are very different, and appear to be the result of less/more fuel and low/hi blower speed. I know you've said that the blower is single speed, but SOMETHING is really winding up when it goes to high power and it sounds like a fan or blower. The air moving through the burn chamber appears to be moving MUCH faster. The tall orange (low/med power) flame just kinda dances around slowly; the short blue (high power) flame "flits" very quickly. It's like the difference between the starting and cutting flame on an acetylene cutting torch. If the blower isn't changing speeds, what accounts for the dramatic change in flame. I doesn't appear to be only fuel flow.

[Keith]

When it's on low/med power, it's getting way too much fuel for the amount of air flow. When it's on high power, the fuel and air flow are pretty well matched. Could I be getting to much fuel on low/med? Why's it running so rich on low/med?