The DEFINATIVE Monitor Thread

[Greg_Cornish]

Monitor

Update: I just fired up the Monitor again to give is another shot. My flame really isn't all that bad, but it definitely could be better . Ive got a blue flame with some orange tips all the way around. It is also doing some other stuff that is a little strange. When ever it comes down from high fire the flame goes to complete crap. Im talking an orange smokey mess. It all seems to point to the combustion fan to me. I ordered a new pressure switch but it will take a week to get here, in the mean time I may pull the cover off of the combustion fan and have look. The orange flame coming off of high fire is completely new though, it never once did that before I took it apart. Which leads me to believe it has to do with something I changed.

I have a monitor 441. For a year I've been getting techs to come out and try to get it running right. It never seemed to come completely up to temp and shut off. It ran all the time. Then it would give the flashing lights. If I turned it on and off again it would run quite a while then do the same thing. The interior was very sooty every time the tech came out.

On the 5th service call they tried to adjust the burner pulse because it was pulsing to fast. If you touch the copper pipe going into the burner it should give a pulse. Mine was giving a very rapid pulse. The tech adjusted the screw indicated in the photo to slow the fuel rate. It affected it a little, but no enough. He finally said I needed a new motherboard. It was $495. I said stick it in and if it doesn't work take it out and take it back. He did. It worked like a charm.

I'd called lots of places on the net and they all told me it was a motherboard, but it was.

Now my question is. Is there anyone who can repair this Mother board. It would be nice to fix this part and have a spare. The only reason I wanted the 441 running like a new one is I've ordered a Toyotomi 60 AT and want to sell the Monitor 441, but I refuse to cheat anyone. Okay it won't let me post a pic on my 1st post but go to gregcornish dot com and then add slash a.jpg

[HayZee518]

my old 41 heater made a lot of soot and yellow flame. the guy at the monitor supplies said the combustion fan didn't have enough rpm-s to produce enough air. a new motor costs 146.40. when its going bad it sounds like a jet engine whining up.

[mkadyz]

Update: I just fired up the Monitor again to give is another shot. My flame really isn't all that bad, but it definitely could be better . Ive got a blue flame with some orange tips all the way around. It is also doing some other stuff that is a little strange. When ever it comes down from high fire the flame goes to complete crap. Im talking an orange smokey mess. It all seems to point to the combustion fan to me. I ordered a new pressure switch but it will take a week to get here, in the mean time I may pull the cover off of the combustion fan and have look. The orange flame coming off of high fire is completely new though, it never once did that before I took it apart. Which leads me to believe it has to do with something I changed.

[HayZee518]

Monitor Heat

All monitor heaters have the fuel inlet on the right side. They're all made of cast white metal with a steel lid. Fuel enters this bowl on the left or rear side. The 20, 40, 41 enters on the left side. There is a cylinder cast into the white metal that houses the filter, center bottom. A gasket and screwed on cover completes the filter chamber. Screwed to the top plate is a bracket that has the solenoid pump on it. It looks like a white coil with three solder connections on it and two quarter inch spade connectors on it. On top the fuel tube unscrews from its connector. The pump body has very fine mesh stainless steel filter. The pump gets its pulsating signal from a transistorized controller that interfaces between the pump and the computer board. A relay on the computer board closes when the unit's calling for heat to supply the pulses for the pump to operate. When the pump is operating, you can put your finger on the pump tube and feel the pulses it makes.

[mkadyz]

Fabulous, informative forum.

I have an old Kerosun Monitor 20 heater, not used for about 10 years and used only infrequently prior to that. I tried to fire it up last week and do not see any flame in the burn chamber. Disconnected the fuel line from the front of the chamber and do not appear to be getting any fuel. I think the fuel filter is OK as fuel does go thru it, so I am assuming the problem, based on an older post, may be the float on the solenoid pump (??). However, I am not sure where this is nor how to get to it on this heater. Can anyone offer some assistance.

When I download the PDF file, I only get the first 35 pages or so missing the entire service portion of it. I'm not sure how much applies to the Monitor 20 in any case. TIA

Marvl, the entire manual is there. You might have just got a bad download.

[mkadyz]

there is no damper adjustment for the 20, 40, 41, 441 and 422. all the damper is - is a solenoid operated plastic flapper that opens when the heater kicks into high heat otherwise it stays partly open. the 2200 and 2400 has an o-ring that modulates as the heater kicks into low-med and high highest heat. so don't worry about it. the solenoid is inside the combustion fan shroud.

So then I guess I don't understand how to fine tune the air fuel ratio. You must be able to adjust something or no one would ever get a good flame. The manometer page in the service manual seems to imply you can adjust the damper on a 22 which I have. I do know that ive got a orange flame and it needs to be blue. When I first bought the house a few years ago I had a guy come out and rebuild it under a home warranty I got with the house. He made some adjustments to the flame after the rebuild, but I don't recall what he did.

[marvl]

fuel supply problem

Fabulous, informative forum.

I have an old Kerosun Monitor 20 heater, not used for about 10 years and used only infrequently prior to that. I tried to fire it up last week and do not see any flame in the burn chamber. Disconnected the fuel line from the front of the chamber and do not appear to be getting any fuel. I think the fuel filter is OK as fuel does go thru it, so I am assuming the problem, based on an older post, may be the float on the solenoid pump (??). However, I am not sure where this is nor how to get to it on this heater. Can anyone offer some assistance.

When I download the PDF file, I only get the first 35 pages or so missing the entire service portion of it. I'm not sure how much applies to the Monitor 20 in any case.

TIA

[HayZee518]

there is no damper adjustment for the 20, 40, 41, 441 and 422. all the damper is - is a solenoid operated plastic flapper that opens when the heater kicks into high heat otherwise it stays partly open. the 2200 and 2400 has an o-ring that modulates as the heater kicks into low-med and high highest heat. so don't worry about it. the solenoid is inside the combustion fan shroud.

[mkadyz]

Do you know where the damper adjustment is located? Ive looked through the manual and cannot find it. Do you think I need to take the cover off of the intake-air fan? It seems the damper assembly is located inside that.

[HayZee518]

the shops around me just eyeball the flame. the unit needs to reach operating temperature before making any adjustment to the damper air. mpi recommends using a manometer. sources of the feeds to the "meter" is a screw hole where the heater bracket is and one hole by the viewing port.

[mkadyz]

Ok, a little update: Between my very full time job and a few other winter projects I had laying around , I managed to get the monitor completely rebuilt and put back together. I ended up scraping the permatex in the burner pot and just used rutland cement, along with the burn mat material from McMaster Carr that Hayzee reccomends. I can say that the new burner mat material is nothing like the one you get from monitor, It feels much heavier, almost like canvas. It was much easier to work with as well. Hopefully it works as well as a burner mat as the OEM piece.

Second, I used the copper permatex for a lot of the gasket sealing surfaces, I guess we'll see how that turns out. It might not be able to take it.

So I got it back together and inside. Fired it up and it went though all of the purge steps and the the burner status lights would come on but the solenoid pump wouldn't do anything. AH, yes I thought to myself, this was the hole reason for me taking the damn thing apart in the first place. Once I found the huge amount of carbon in the burner pot, I assumed that was the reason for all of my troubles and everything would be perfect once I cleaned it out and but in a new burner mat. Well that was not the case, so I started hunting around. There was no voltage at the pump it self but there was voltage going into the pump controller. At this point I was pretty sure it was the air pressure switch or the pump controller itself. I decided to jumper the air pressure switch and volia, the pump kicked on when It was supposed to and everything seems to be timed and working like it should. I will be buying a new pressure switch the jumper was just for diagnostic purposes.

Now the problem, I don't know how to adjust the air fuel ratio. When it first fired up I had a pretty decent blue flame, but once it kicked in to high fire it was very orange with no blue to be seen. Is there a damper screw somewhere? Do I need a manometer to do this or can I just eyeball the flame and get close enough? I will also keep everyone posted as to how the permatex gaskets hold up.

Edited for spelling.

[HayZee518]

JUST A BEAD AROUND THE EDGES - THE CUT FLAP IN THE BURNER MAT SLIDES UNDERNEATH THE u SHAPED CHANNEL. YOU'LL NEED TO REMOVE THE FUEL TUBE AND FUEL TUBE EXTENSION TO GET THE MAT UNDERNEATH.

[mkadyz]

The way you got your burner mat is wrong! It's shaped like a D with the rounded part near the left rear side. the cut-out for the U shaped channel goes under the channel. your photo shows the mat covering the whole thing - not correct!

Hayzee I don't have a 441 I have an M22. Check out page 40 of the service manual, Fig. 5-1 is what I used for a reference.

where are the three pins that the combustion ring goes on?

I had to take them out to get my dremel in there to get all of the built up carbon out.

I tried using the Permatex Ultra Copper to hold down my original mat where it had come unstuck at one corner. The Permatex vaporized and the mat came unstuck again. I finally used Rutland Hi-Temp Stove & Gasket Cement, which seems to be holding so far.

Thats pretty crappy about the Permatex. I didn't read about the Rutland stuff until I had already glued it down. I did buy some of the burner mat and gasket material from McMaster Carr that Hayzee recommended though, so I guess I will tear out the other mat and replace it while its still apart and do it the right way.

Other than all of that stuff, did you guys end up smearing the cement all over the bottom of it or did you manage to get it in there with just a ring around the edges?

[HayZee518]

The RUTLAND High temp cement requires heat to fully cure it - that's why I used it. Silicone products break down as you found out.

[adnadeau]

Permatex Ultra Copper

I tried using the Permatex Ultra Copper to hold down my original mat where it had come unstuck at one corner. The Permatex vaporized and the mat came unstuck again. I finally used Rutland Hi-Temp Stove & Gasket Cement, which seems to be holding so far.